holyschist: Image of a medieval crocodile from Herodotus, eating a person, with the caption "om nom nom" (Default)
posted by [personal profile] holyschist at 12:08am on 13/04/2010
I read in chronological order (except for Falling Free), so I was pretty much deeply disappointed that there wasn't more Cordelia in the books following Barrayar.

I'm also not the biggest Miles fan (and even less so Admiral Naismith), and I get really annoyed at how every. single. time. he meets a woman she's gorgeous (at least by Miles standards, see: Taura) and he notices this at length.

Man, um, I may have written something about her queer characters back when I was reading the books last year, I dunno. I'm not sure I have the memory to do so now, and I don't know if I'll reread them, but I agree with you on the textual discomfort with Bel. Plus I thought the Donno thing was handled in a very odd and confusing way; it didn't seem to make sense from what I've read from trans folks. And Ethan of Athos, the entire novel, basically annoyed the shit out of me, although I'm not sure I could articulate why in an intelligent manner.

Also, YES on race issues.

Bujold frustrates me because there's SO MUCH that's compelling about her novels, but they don't quite make it on any of the big social issues for me. (I think the only books I don't have giant issues with are the first two and "Mountains of Mourning".)
 
posted by [identity profile] zahrawithaz.livejournal.com at 02:19am on 13/04/2010
Yes, the Vorkosigan saga has a lot of problems from feminist and trans perspectives. The thing that always stuck out to me from the first two books was the satirical portrait of Beta Colony, and the obvious implication that Barrayar, with its old-fashioned sexism and class oppression, was nevertheless a more fun place to have an adventure.

I think Ethan of Athos is actually fascinating in terms of a straight writer tackling issues of sexual orientation when you consider that it was published in 1986. That is to say, during a decade of virulent homophobia and at the height of the AIDS crisis in the US.

As you say, it's deeply problematic in lots of ways that haven't lost their currency--associating homosexuality and incest, for one thing. And then there's her decision to create a world in which gay men are a majority and her hero never truly experiences what it's like to be a minority--a decision that lots of privileged writers replicate to this day by magically erasing homophobia or whatever prejudice their oppressed characters would face (I suspect because it's hard for them to imagine their way into that experience). (IMO white writers do this with race A LOT.)

But there are other aspects of the book that were radical for its time--the ending, in which it's implied that two men can live happily ever after, in particular. And a lot of what is problematic in the book--the association of gay men with virulent sexism, for one thing--has specific roots in the politics of the 1980s. It would be interesting to analyze it alongside the works produced by the gay lit movement of that decade; Bujold was trying, but it's immediately apparent that she wasn't reading gay authors representing their own realities like Edmund White and Andrew Holleran.

Getting back to nojojo's point--I think that tradition also continues. Yes, exactly, most white, Western SF writers are too entrenched in their own (unacknowledged or not) racist and colonialist and privileged mindsets. But they also aren't reading the SF being written by people of color, or from non-Western perspectives; they're trapped in their own self-reinforcing headspace, as Bujold was in the 80s (perhaps still is, for all I know), and so you see a similar pattern of problems in even good-faith efforts.
holyschist: Image of a medieval crocodile from Herodotus, eating a person, with the caption "om nom nom" (Default)
posted by [personal profile] holyschist at 03:04am on 13/04/2010
The thing that always stuck out to me from the first two books was the satirical portrait of Beta Colony, and the obvious implication that Barrayar, with its old-fashioned sexism and class oppression, was nevertheless a more fun place to have an adventure.

Yeah, that was something that bothered me as well, and I almost didn't keep reading the books because I knew they were all Barrayar-centered (I ended up thinking Barrayar was interesting, but. Well, reservations).

Thanks for the context on Ethan of Athos; I admit my youth. I really don't have any concept from personal experience of what the climate was like in the 1980s, since I was a small child. Hmm. I guess I can acknowledge that something was in some ways groundbreaking for its time and still be unable to enjoy it for that from a modern perspective. I don't know. It's probably pretty arbitrary and influenced by my areas of privilege and my hot buttons.

But they also aren't reading the SF being written by people of color, or from non-Western perspectives; they're trapped in their own self-reinforcing headspace...and so you see a similar pattern of problems in even good-faith efforts.

Yes, exactly.
 
posted by [personal profile] boundbooks at 03:32am on 13/04/2010
This actually reminds me of a discussion that I read about Mercedes Lackey's The Last Herald Mage trilogy.

It's a fantasy series, set in her Valdemar universe, where the male lead is an impossibly beautiful gay man who spends most of the three books:

1) Wallowing in angst
2) Facing rejection by his immediate family for being gay
3) Getting beaten up as a young man for being 'feminine' and liking nice outfits and poetry
4) Wearing impeccably tasteful outfits
5) Loses his first lover as a teenager, traumatizing him for the better part of twenty-odd years
6) Forms a relationship, later on, with a young man who's so much younger than he is as to nearly be inappropriate (a fact which is commented on at large by other characters within the books)

Today, it reads like a check-list of cliches. On the other hand, it was published in 1989 and the hero also:

1) Is openly gay and comfortable with himself
2) An un-godly powerful mage *edited to add* and fantastic swordsman
3) Forms a new family among like-minded friends and a mothering Aunt
4) Saves his country numerous times
5) Finds True Love

I don't read Mercedes Lackey any longer, as most of her heroes and heroines have The Angst Factor To A Power of Ten, but I do give her credit for writing quite a bit ahead of the mainstream. While The Last Herald Mage is horribly cliched by 2010 standards, for 1989 (and probably up through most of the 90's) it was pretty damn groundbreaking. So, I kind of give her a pass on some of Vanyel's more egregious characteristics.

Now if only someone would write a fantasy series with a gay lead and start pushing on some of 2010's boundaries! :)
Edited Date: 2010-04-13 03:36 am (UTC)

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